The commentary about Laurie on The White Lotus has been especially interesting to witness; most of it I have seen as supporting Laurie as the "good, real friend," even though Laurie instigated the gossip in many of the scenarios and also partook in slamming her friends behind their backs. I wish there was more of "what can we take from this TRIO" as you've so eloquently written about in your own post. I'm glad we're Substack friends 🫶🏼
Yes this is so true, Violet. Laurie is definitely written to be more sympathetic and I feel we see the friendship through her eyes most of the time so it’s perhaps easier to relate to her. But I kept thinking, why are you here if you hate them so much? It really made me think!
You watched The White Lotus, whereas I gave up on it in the second episode! I witnessed the nasty side of female friendships earlier in my life. Finally, in the past 20 years (now in my late 60s), I have found a group of women to rely on and love, who do the same for me. They stood by me in the worst time of my life, losing my spouse, and have remained loving and loyal ever since. We need each other more than ever now with aging, health concerns, family issues, etc. The laughter and love we spread will help us more than ever. Enjoyed your story!
This is exactly the kind of friendship I want to nurture, Candy! I always hear from other women how important female friendships are as we age. How did you meet your friends?
Emma, I met all of them because of middle school and high school football and lacrosse. Our boys, all the same year, played one ir both sports together for 6 years, and we became each others social life. We have about 12 of us still off and on gathering and several play pickleball twice weekly. We are even gathering for Cinco de Mayo tomorrow night, some with spouses tagging along. What a group!
I'm with you; what I now look for in a friendship is being taken for who I am, nothing more, nothing less. That goes hand in hand with being seen, as well as heard (as in, being able to tell my story freely and without judgement).
Sara, I wish I had written this in my post! Your description is, word for word, what I look for in a friendship, too. Thank you so much for commenting and validating this for me!
I loved reading this! Thank you for writing it and sharing it. You know, I came across a research finding in the past couple of weeks that really hit home with me. It talked about "social ambivalence" and how ambivalent connections in our lives are more detrimental to our health than overtly negative ones. They defined social ambivalence as a relationship that is both supportive and undermining. (I think of my "friend" who showed up for my birthday to be "supportive" but then proceeded to low-key criticize all of my life choices for the rest of the night.) The unpredictability creates massive, chronic stress. I had felt this in my soul before but never saw it reflected in research. Those relationships where my nervous system never knows what to expect, leaving me in a state of quiet vigilance. I'd been feeling the nudge for some time but after reading clear research that supports it, I'll be saying a hard "no" to those frenemies from now on.
I am SO glad you mentioned this, Katie. I feel like I’ve read about this research somewhere before, but I can’t recall where. Like you, I found it to be so clarifying. I’ve had friends who’ve been very supportive but, at times, also very unkind. It definitely added a level of chronic stress to social interactions and led to me never really feeling safe with them. It was also hard to justify a friendship breakup because they were so ‘supportive’. In the end, I’m so glad I became aware of the issue. Only after I had walked away did I really understand how much of my time was spent worrying about their opinion.
Thanks Emma, I just found this after watching you on Sarah Fay's video. I haven't watched the White Lotus, but have plenty to ponder about the many and varied female friendships I have/had: some devastating; others truly redemptive.
HI Emma, the trio was a painful thing to watch! I have finally (after many years) realized that I don’t need to have friends who are self-centered. The way conversations work their way always back to themselves. The way they use language to make it sound like they are open, but in fact they are very demanding and judgmental. I have so many loving, supportive friends since I started weeding out the others (10 years ago- its a process). Funny fact - both friends that I needed to “break up with” were therapists - Congrats on identifying this as a priority!
Elizabeth, I feel this so much: “The way they use language to make it sound like they are open, but in fact they are very demanding and judgmental.”
I swear, I keep making friends who are secretly judging me the whole time. And not about small things—About the core aspects of my personality. I just don’t get why you’d want to be friends with me if you don’t really like me?
I’m so glad you’ve been on this journey too… it gives me hope!
Yep... But it comes with a depth of friendship that I unfortunately almost never see in male friendships. Female friendships are more like romantic relationships. And those can get toxic, or beautiful, really quickly.
I absolutely agree, Maggie. I read somewhere that women tend to treat their friends as siblings whereas men tend to treat their friends more like cousins. This has rung true in my experience. But as you say, the closer we get, the more likely it is that we’ll experience conflict. I guess where I personally get stuck is at what point does conflict become toxic? I worry I have a low bar due to being hurt badly in the past!
Oh I totally understand, same here. But I've been hurt by men too, just in a different way. I think we all have unkind thoughts, even about friends. Ideally you would tell each other the truth and don't constantly talk behind each other's back, though.
Wow, Emma! What interesting commentary! Admittedly, I don't watch "The White Lotus" (or much T.V., for that matter), so it's interesting to me to really read about what an impact pop culture can have on women, especially when it comes to something that's as discussed and portrayed - sometimes rightly, often wrongly - as female friendships. Likewise, thank you for being so honest about your experience and speaking from the heart. This is exactly the kind of content Substack wants and needs, and you're doing great work! 🖤❤️
Likewise, great to meet you, and I’m glad that you’re finding Substack to be so rewarding! 😊🧡📄
Likewise, if you’re interested in a fresh perspective on culture, lifestyle, and politics, I’d really appreciate it if you could please subscribe to and comment on Letters From the Castle 🏰🌙💜
Perfect in every way. The White Lotus dynamic was so hard to watch. Still, I was thrilled that it was spotlighted — thereby opening wise and necessary dialogue like yours. Thank you for sharing all of this. You are a true thought leader on friendship dynamics. I’m so proud to call you my friend.
SO hard to watch! As I wrote this piece, I wondered if you’d also watched it. It honestly terrified me haha I know you relate!! And that’s such a kind thing to say. We need to collab on this somehow! I’m also very proud to call you my friend 🧡
This perfectly reflects how I feel. "That said, the most important quality I now look for in a friend is that they take me as I am. I want to hear about their hopes and dreams, and not where they think I’m going wrong with mine."
The commentary about Laurie on The White Lotus has been especially interesting to witness; most of it I have seen as supporting Laurie as the "good, real friend," even though Laurie instigated the gossip in many of the scenarios and also partook in slamming her friends behind their backs. I wish there was more of "what can we take from this TRIO" as you've so eloquently written about in your own post. I'm glad we're Substack friends 🫶🏼
Yes this is so true, Violet. Laurie is definitely written to be more sympathetic and I feel we see the friendship through her eyes most of the time so it’s perhaps easier to relate to her. But I kept thinking, why are you here if you hate them so much? It really made me think!
You watched The White Lotus, whereas I gave up on it in the second episode! I witnessed the nasty side of female friendships earlier in my life. Finally, in the past 20 years (now in my late 60s), I have found a group of women to rely on and love, who do the same for me. They stood by me in the worst time of my life, losing my spouse, and have remained loving and loyal ever since. We need each other more than ever now with aging, health concerns, family issues, etc. The laughter and love we spread will help us more than ever. Enjoyed your story!
This is exactly the kind of friendship I want to nurture, Candy! I always hear from other women how important female friendships are as we age. How did you meet your friends?
Emma, I met all of them because of middle school and high school football and lacrosse. Our boys, all the same year, played one ir both sports together for 6 years, and we became each others social life. We have about 12 of us still off and on gathering and several play pickleball twice weekly. We are even gathering for Cinco de Mayo tomorrow night, some with spouses tagging along. What a group!
Ah, that’s so lovely! ☺️
I'm with you; what I now look for in a friendship is being taken for who I am, nothing more, nothing less. That goes hand in hand with being seen, as well as heard (as in, being able to tell my story freely and without judgement).
Sara, I wish I had written this in my post! Your description is, word for word, what I look for in a friendship, too. Thank you so much for commenting and validating this for me!
I loved reading this! Thank you for writing it and sharing it. You know, I came across a research finding in the past couple of weeks that really hit home with me. It talked about "social ambivalence" and how ambivalent connections in our lives are more detrimental to our health than overtly negative ones. They defined social ambivalence as a relationship that is both supportive and undermining. (I think of my "friend" who showed up for my birthday to be "supportive" but then proceeded to low-key criticize all of my life choices for the rest of the night.) The unpredictability creates massive, chronic stress. I had felt this in my soul before but never saw it reflected in research. Those relationships where my nervous system never knows what to expect, leaving me in a state of quiet vigilance. I'd been feeling the nudge for some time but after reading clear research that supports it, I'll be saying a hard "no" to those frenemies from now on.
I am SO glad you mentioned this, Katie. I feel like I’ve read about this research somewhere before, but I can’t recall where. Like you, I found it to be so clarifying. I’ve had friends who’ve been very supportive but, at times, also very unkind. It definitely added a level of chronic stress to social interactions and led to me never really feeling safe with them. It was also hard to justify a friendship breakup because they were so ‘supportive’. In the end, I’m so glad I became aware of the issue. Only after I had walked away did I really understand how much of my time was spent worrying about their opinion.
Thanks Emma, I just found this after watching you on Sarah Fay's video. I haven't watched the White Lotus, but have plenty to ponder about the many and varied female friendships I have/had: some devastating; others truly redemptive.
Thanks so much for reading, Harriet! I’m so glad Sarah’s video brought you here :)
I am still trying to nurture supportive female friendships! I think the fact I emigrated at 25 made it harder.
HI Emma, the trio was a painful thing to watch! I have finally (after many years) realized that I don’t need to have friends who are self-centered. The way conversations work their way always back to themselves. The way they use language to make it sound like they are open, but in fact they are very demanding and judgmental. I have so many loving, supportive friends since I started weeding out the others (10 years ago- its a process). Funny fact - both friends that I needed to “break up with” were therapists - Congrats on identifying this as a priority!
Elizabeth, I feel this so much: “The way they use language to make it sound like they are open, but in fact they are very demanding and judgmental.”
I swear, I keep making friends who are secretly judging me the whole time. And not about small things—About the core aspects of my personality. I just don’t get why you’d want to be friends with me if you don’t really like me?
I’m so glad you’ve been on this journey too… it gives me hope!
This is a stunning piece Emma. Loved every word and the questions you are asking are so on point.
Wow, Leah, thanks so much. Have you also found these friendship dynamics playing out in your own life?
Yep... But it comes with a depth of friendship that I unfortunately almost never see in male friendships. Female friendships are more like romantic relationships. And those can get toxic, or beautiful, really quickly.
I absolutely agree, Maggie. I read somewhere that women tend to treat their friends as siblings whereas men tend to treat their friends more like cousins. This has rung true in my experience. But as you say, the closer we get, the more likely it is that we’ll experience conflict. I guess where I personally get stuck is at what point does conflict become toxic? I worry I have a low bar due to being hurt badly in the past!
Oh I totally understand, same here. But I've been hurt by men too, just in a different way. I think we all have unkind thoughts, even about friends. Ideally you would tell each other the truth and don't constantly talk behind each other's back, though.
So true! Thank you for your thoughts!
Wow, Emma! What interesting commentary! Admittedly, I don't watch "The White Lotus" (or much T.V., for that matter), so it's interesting to me to really read about what an impact pop culture can have on women, especially when it comes to something that's as discussed and portrayed - sometimes rightly, often wrongly - as female friendships. Likewise, thank you for being so honest about your experience and speaking from the heart. This is exactly the kind of content Substack wants and needs, and you're doing great work! 🖤❤️
Likewise, great to meet you, and I’m glad that you’re finding Substack to be so rewarding! 😊🧡📄
Likewise, if you’re interested in a fresh perspective on culture, lifestyle, and politics, I’d really appreciate it if you could please subscribe to and comment on Letters From the Castle 🏰🌙💜
My latest article: https://substack.com/home/post/p-162373301
Thanks so much! What a kind and thoughtful comment 🙂 I’m on my phone right now but I’ll try to read your piece this week!
Perfect in every way. The White Lotus dynamic was so hard to watch. Still, I was thrilled that it was spotlighted — thereby opening wise and necessary dialogue like yours. Thank you for sharing all of this. You are a true thought leader on friendship dynamics. I’m so proud to call you my friend.
SO hard to watch! As I wrote this piece, I wondered if you’d also watched it. It honestly terrified me haha I know you relate!! And that’s such a kind thing to say. We need to collab on this somehow! I’m also very proud to call you my friend 🧡
This perfectly reflects how I feel. "That said, the most important quality I now look for in a friend is that they take me as I am. I want to hear about their hopes and dreams, and not where they think I’m going wrong with mine."
Im glad you relate, Quin! Thanks so much for reading and commenting 🙂🧡
This is spot on. Here’s to the real friends that love us even when we’re messy. And thank you for being a wonderful real-deal friend 🩵💫
Thank YOU! For being a real deal friend!! ❤️